tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post5598457443998757451..comments2023-11-10T23:55:11.147-06:00Comments on A Swedish American in Sweden: The Decay of the Swedish Model?Hairy Swedehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-64477467150272467452014-08-31T05:37:58.826-05:002014-08-31T05:37:58.826-05:00Disagree. Completely.Disagree. Completely.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-29586985626767683822011-03-11T19:34:34.241-06:002011-03-11T19:34:34.241-06:00Read the article about the acquital of the man who...Read the article about the acquital of the man who shot the teens, very glad he did not have to pay restitution to the family, that'll show those kids to show up at his home and threaten him. It doesn't matter if you threaten someone with sticks, guns, or your bare hands, the appropriate response is to corpse as many of them as you can, then bill their families for the cleanup.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-25527964318092063882009-10-12T15:17:51.625-05:002009-10-12T15:17:51.625-05:00Let me preface this by saying that I think I have ...Let me preface this by saying that I think I have ended up in some not so good companies here in Sweden and some pretty good ones in the US, but my experience has been the opposite. I am amazed at the lack of structure and efficiency. That being said, plenty of people have had experiences similar to the one above so I suppose it all depends.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-81352880466023038272009-10-09T03:20:52.897-05:002009-10-09T03:20:52.897-05:00"Colin said...
Sometimes it totally blow..."Colin said...<br /><br /> Sometimes it totally blows my mind that Sweden has a functioning economy considering how little people work and especially how little work they actually do when they DO go to work. It is crazy!"<br /><br />Jeez Colin, if you ever visit and work in an Anglo-Saxon country, you will notice that they tend to work very long days but are very ineffective. I worked for years for an American global corp, and often I spent 40-50% of my weekly working hours in meetings. And everybody sings the same song of "we are working so hard on this bla bla". Also, cleaning up the mess of continuous flow of idiotic decisions made incompetent management brightens up every week. Yes, I guess meritocracy would be considered socialism. It was like living in Dilbert. And trust me, I would have never imagined that before actually trying an american corporation. <br /><br />That corporation made a very nice profit last year, and sometimes I wonder how that is possible :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-38101539669284446252009-10-06T15:31:15.600-05:002009-10-06T15:31:15.600-05:00the economy of Sweden is fascinating. Its stuck be...the economy of Sweden is fascinating. Its stuck between being a socialist for the worker sort of thing and a capitalist for profit sort of thing, and somehow it works relatively well. That being said, I'm not sure that it woul work anywhere. I think so much of it has to do with the size of the country, the history of the country, the political views of the country, that trying to transplant it somewhere else ight be a disaster. that being said, pickingand choosing a little bit and taking what might work for other economies probably wouldn't be a bad idea. of course that goes for just about every economy.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-88806422830318675252009-10-03T12:08:22.424-05:002009-10-03T12:08:22.424-05:00Sometimes it totally blows my mind that Sweden has...Sometimes it totally blows my mind that Sweden has a functioning economy considering how little people work and especially how little work they actually do when they DO go to work. It is crazy! But something must be economically correct here because it seems to be a lot more stable than the economy back in the US, it sure seems to be handling the crises better. If it can work here it must be able to work anywhere!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06986513880434476492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-78244261459000572172009-10-03T12:01:21.408-05:002009-10-03T12:01:21.408-05:00Great blog here. I'm really enjoying reading ...Great blog here. I'm really enjoying reading your impressions of living here in Sweden. I'm totally with you on so many things as I have had so many of your thoughts. Keep up the good work.<br /><br />Colin from California.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06986513880434476492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-10031333908217587952009-01-22T00:41:00.000-06:002009-01-22T00:41:00.000-06:00I love the yelling on the street idea. Its gloriou...I love the yelling on the street idea. Its glorious.<BR/><BR/>But you're right, its not catastrophic. But it is rising. And I would say rising enough that it is noticeable. Good call on the stats though.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-37188961106357783262009-01-21T20:49:00.000-06:002009-01-21T20:49:00.000-06:00Also, In Ulfs statistics one have to take into acc...Also, In Ulfs statistics one have to take into account that there were 3 million less swedes in the 1950'sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-7810583884689848922009-01-21T20:40:00.000-06:002009-01-21T20:40:00.000-06:00This blog is extremely interesting. Very good disc...This blog is extremely interesting. Very good discussions.<BR/>I agree with you, the crime sentences are a joke. I seriously don't know anyone who actually think the sentences should be this low for terrible crimes. What can i do to change it? Maybe yell a little bit on some street. I'll try.<BR/>I just had to look up if the violence is really rising as much as i got the impression of. Well it has been rising, but not catastrophly:<BR/>http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____48942.aspAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-75280293632029674822008-10-30T07:13:00.000-05:002008-10-30T07:13:00.000-05:00agreed, in just about any arena, when there are th...agreed, in just about any arena, when there are things that some people believe need to be changed, then a discussion must happen. but when that discussion is marred by defensive feelings and the inability to actually speak ones mind then nothing will be accomplished.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-88101434362283253422008-10-29T08:57:00.000-05:002008-10-29T08:57:00.000-05:00I enjoyed reading your blog. Violence, children an...I enjoyed reading your blog. Violence, children and women abuse is all over the world not only Sweden.Some Sweds might feel annoyed if you comment on their law system but they have to understand that bringing out the truth is more important than anyone's nationality or "country". <BR/><BR/>Sweden should not be "favored out" when speaking about crime.Mamoshkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02521349584442238262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-4852353604984542222008-08-15T01:21:00.000-05:002008-08-15T01:21:00.000-05:00it runs rampant in sweden. unfortunately. and you'...it runs rampant in sweden. unfortunately. and you'll learn to live with it. but it will drive you nuts. in fact, I think you see it in all walks of life. very few people take any sort of personal responsibility instead blaming it on others or hoping that others will fix whatever is wrong.<BR/><BR/>but Im glad you're enjoying the blog. keep commenting.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-17849657311255765922008-08-14T17:19:00.000-05:002008-08-14T17:19:00.000-05:00Man you are spot on! I am an American working for ...Man you are spot on! I am an American working for a branch of the Swedish government and I just have been racking my brain trying to comprehend how lax my colleagues are in actually DOING their work and your blog just really is helping me put my pieces together. Previously I had just come to accept that my colleagues are suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome" but the problem truly does stem from too much dependency on government that has moved from helpful to hurting. great unbiased observations! look forward to reading regularlyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-86837641848715497132008-05-17T10:44:00.000-05:002008-05-17T10:44:00.000-05:00@swedette - you bring up some excellent points. I...@swedette - you bring up some excellent points. I think actually the one that is most important is the glorification of the place we have left. we often times forget the bad and focus on the god while in the new places we focus on the bad and forget the good. it's an interesting phenomenon. don't really know what it says about a persos ability to be happy. But some very good points all around in your comment.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-56971292510944290972008-05-14T18:00:00.000-05:002008-05-14T18:00:00.000-05:00Wow. Great blog. I am just moving back from Colora...Wow. Great blog. <BR/><BR/>I am just moving back from Colorado to Sweden after eight years, and personally, I find that the United States has a great, culture-wide disregard for life that you don't find in Sweden (vastly generalizing here). I almost got shot with because of the Make My Day law here during my first year, and I wasn't even trespassing. Just walking down a county road, and this farmer shows up in his truck with a shotgun and wife. <BR/>As for Rödeby, I am all on the side of the family. <BR/>Speaking of personal responsibility, I think that when you've been part taking in terrorizing a family over a number of years is not a good time to cry foul play when they strike back. Here's a situation when the victims (family) have tried repeatedly to solve the situation. If you've ever felt your life, or those you love, truly in danger - had a stalker, a bully, someone causing physical and mental harm, you know how it affects your mind. Perhaps at first it's only a nagging feeling to look over your shoulder, not answer your phone, change your pattern of movement around the community. But over a number of years, that'll build up to a feeling of despair, and desperate people take to desperate measures. If the father had had options, another way to act (like actually being able to rely on the police to solve it, or the harassment to stop), he probably would have. I don't think he took time to analyze what was in the hands of the multiple people who'd physically tried to harm, and repeatedly and strategically threatened his family. If he had sought them out down town, chased them down the streets or in their homes, that would have constituted murder. <BR/>But they were in his yard. They were calling with threats, and advancing to his house, where his family was. And all this after years of harassment. I can see how his mind went in to primal fear mode. When you just desperately want something to disappear, you don't handle it rationally, especially in a pressed situation like this. <BR/><BR/>I think it's more terrifying to have the Japanese exchange student Yoshihiro Hattori shot and killed for ringing the wrong doorbell in Louisiana, while trying to find his way to a Halloween party. The shooter was acquitted, although there was no history of violence, no criminal intend nor trespassing involved. <BR/><BR/>It is indeed very sad that the 15 year old boy who was not really part of the gang in Rödeby was killed, but he knew his buddies had been harassing the family, he knew why they were there that night, and he didn't have to be on somebody's property with a stick in hand. Those were actions to which there were very unfortunate consequences. But I don't think it shows a culture-wide disrespect of human life. <BR/><BR/>I know that when I move back to Sweden, I will have many problems with the country that I don't see now, and I will similarly glorify Colorado (rightfully, as she's a beautiful state!), but I'd rather take these questions in context of the actions themselves. <BR/><BR/>I was always a good kid growing up in Sweden. I always picked trash up off the street, and continue to do so. When I talk to travelers who've visited Scandinavia, they always comment on how clean it is. Colorado is as well. But there are many places in the states where litter lines the highways and cities alike, and I hope to be a good example to someone and show that each attempt we make at creating a better world is important, whether it be picking up trash, creating art, or speaking to the lonely person on the public transportation.Katie Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08687761455570567469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-86665579221003815352008-05-13T11:10:00.000-05:002008-05-13T11:10:00.000-05:00some excellent points once again isel dance. good ...some excellent points once again isel dance. good work.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-78626184765427734872008-05-11T14:34:00.000-05:002008-05-11T14:34:00.000-05:00I forgot to mention...Gavin de Becker's book, "The...I forgot to mention...<BR/><BR/>Gavin de Becker's book, "The Gift of Fear", addresses a lot of this stuff in an amazing way. You all might love it. I think it should be mandatory reading for all humans.<BR/><BR/>One of his stats, if I'm remembering correctly: One of the most dangerous situations a lone person can encounter, is a group of teen thugs.Isle Dancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04755103029114698264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-77438960370745804272008-05-11T14:28:00.000-05:002008-05-11T14:28:00.000-05:00Back in the olden days, when I was taking a handgu...Back in the olden days, when I was taking a handgun self-defense course through the police department, they specified how we were to protect ourselves, should we need to. They emphasized that they cannot be there to protect every citizen. They just can't. They don't like it, but they can't. So they need us to know how to properly (legally, safely) protect ourselves. And we need to practice, practice, practice.<BR/><BR/>I don't know what they teach people nowadays - due to laws and all - but this is what I was taught (if I'm remembering correctly, and it's likely I'm not).<BR/><BR/>-If someone is entering my home, it's my responsibility to retreat to the best of my ability while not giving up my ability to protect myself. Ideally, this is to a previously determined safe location, where phone, gun, furniture are available to help shield/protect me.<BR/><BR/>-At the same time, it's my responsibility to shout out loudly to said intruder that they are to leave immediately, as I am armed and will defend myself if they do not leave immediately/stop their objectionable behavior.<BR/><BR/>-It's also my duty to phone the police. It's my duty to keep shouting out to them to stop their objectionable behavior. It's my duty to retreat as much as possible without compromising my own ability to protect myself.<BR/><BR/>-Only as a last resort do I shoot, but I need to learn what those last resorts are. For instance, if they're hopped up on drugs, they have an energy running through them that might be of excessive strength. I have to figure out at what point I am no longer safe.<BR/><BR/>-Oh, and then we were taught where to shoot, how to shoot and why to shoot them there. Geez, I can't even remember that, but I was the best shot in the class. :o)<BR/><BR/>That said, I don't ever want to harm someone. But if I have to hold them back so that they cannot harm another/me, that will be my first line of defense. Hold them back. That will always be my first choice. Not beat them to death. Not shoot them to death. Something has to be seriously wrong for someone to lash out and kill another.<BR/><BR/>And that said, I don't know the finite details of this story - but wish I did. This is when being an investigator or juror is helpful. :o)Isle Dancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04755103029114698264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-68469810949388468032008-05-11T13:53:00.000-05:002008-05-11T13:53:00.000-05:00@anonymous - Not at all. I have a habit of not alw...@anonymous - Not at all. I have a habit of not always putting in everything. I forget that because I write in English I get a lot of people who aren’t from Sweden and haven’t been inundated with the same news stories as me. You brought up some excellent points. Definitely appreciated. And I think you’re still right, I suppose it still comes down to me struggling with what I consider excessive force. That being the actual killing part. <BR/><BR/>I also think you bring up a good point in that the laws here in Sweden when it comes to this sort of thing aren’t quite like they are in the US (as discussed here Texas and Colorado). Maybe this will be some sort of catalyst.<BR/><BR/>But you are absolutely right. In the end it comes down to what the father believed. Did he feel so threatened that what happened was necessary? I don’t know. It’s a slippery slope.<BR/><BR/>@fromCO – fair enough. But to be honest my problem is not so much with the use of force. I just found it to be excessive in that one kid died and one was seriously injured. I think there were other options. First, as the anonymous commenter above said, the man could have “just scared the bejesus out of” the kids, or shot to disarm but not kill. But I think there are plenty of people who would have used force in this situation. Or would have, at the least, produced a weapon of some sort. And understandably I think also. But the fact remains that he killed someone.<BR/><BR/>And I am well aware of the purpose of the Make My Day law. I remember a case from, I believe, Eaton, CO in which a man shot another man who was armed with a blunt object through his screen door because he felt threatened. Even that was seen as a bit tricky because he wasn’t actually in the house and there was still a barrier. Albeit a screen door. And in this case the man was inside (safely… possibly. Depends on who you ask I suppose, but most would argue that it was safer inside and behind locked doors than outside on the lawn with the kids) and came outside to shoot the kids. <BR/><BR/>In the end it still comes down to me struggling with the fact that he killed someone.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-17135142526032808022008-05-09T14:25:00.000-05:002008-05-09T14:25:00.000-05:00I must disagree with the blogger's assessment that...I must disagree with the blogger's assessment that there was a problem in shooting the kids who were threatening his family. Unless there are one or more facts I'm missing, I would likely do the same thing (although alcohol would NOT be involved). Six armed teenagers constitute a deadly threat in my mind, particulary if they were uttering threats. <BR/>By the way, I live in Colorado, and the purpose of the law you cited is to keep citizens immune from prosecution when the defend themselves on their own property with deadly force (although the law is less clear about force used on your property but outside your dwelling).<BR/><BR/>Also, if the man were drunk, drunkeness is not an excuse in the U.S. for committing a crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-42791317933655258342008-05-09T14:12:00.000-05:002008-05-09T14:12:00.000-05:00Yeah, I apologize for pontificating without knowin...Yeah, I apologize for pontificating without knowing the background of the story.<BR/><BR/>I agree that those details suggest that the situation clearly had not (yet?) reached the point of grievous or mortal danger, so the father's actions were not comensurate, especially in a society that doesn't have the very explicit laws that the US does (some parts anyway) regarding the rights of property owners versus trespassers.<BR/><BR/>If the events took place as you describe them in the US, most people would be upset about the outcome as well.<BR/><BR/>Although, I do think that this where our laws regarding the supremacy of private property come from. The father was drunk, and possibly recognized that there was a situation brewing which he was not in a state to handle effectively... It's "safer" for him and his family to come back with guns blazing than to "see how things develop". In Texas (for example), the law is clear: they were on his property with reasonably-presumptive ill intent. Shoot em. (Not much for nuance in TX :)<BR/><BR/>His impaired state might also explain why he killed rather than injured (or more responsibly, just scared the bejesus out of). Tough call. TX makes it easy, and trespassers in TX know to exercise an abundance of caution and deference to the owner of the property they are on. <BR/><BR/>But the question remains whether the father thought he and his family were in danger, or if he was just drunk and ornery. If the latter, the world would be a better place without him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-79841584282770449972008-05-09T10:54:00.000-05:002008-05-09T10:54:00.000-05:00@anonymous – killing someone is obviously the most...@anonymous – killing someone is obviously the most reliable because it neutralizes the situation in the most permanent sense.<BR/><BR/>And you’re right a group of 15 and 16 year olds can do quite a bit of damage. And for the 50 year old a gun is an excellent way of asserting himself. Agreed. <BR/><BR/>And here is my understanding of the situation. Mom came home in the car. The teenage gang was out front. She called the police, was told that an officer was on the way, and then left. Her children and the father were in the house. At the same time the son, who was 19, called the police also and was told an officer was on the way. He stayed on the phone with the police.<BR/><BR/>The father, who at this point had apparently had himself a bit of whisky (1.3 blood alchol level according to thelocal.se) had been asleep. He woke up and went outside with a gun. When he came back inside he took the phone from his son and told the police he had shot two of the kids. The police car showed up about 20 minutes after the initial call (it’s a very rural area).<BR/><BR/>According to witnesses, the father shot both of the kids at close range. One witness (who I assume was one of the kids) said that the father yelled stop, at which point the 17 year old did just that. Unfortunately the father had pulled the trigger as he was yelling stop.<BR/><BR/>The courts found him mentally unstable at the time of the shooting. From thelocal.se “The court ruled that when the man fired the shots, his mental state was such that he lacked the ability to consciously consider his behaviour or understand the consequences.”<BR/><BR/>So that is my understanding of the facts behind the case. So he got off because he was crazy at the time, not because of any sort of make my day law like in Colorado. Granted, I assume that the surrounding circumstances are argued to have played a role in his temporary insanity but it is important to note that he was let go because he wasn’t mentally stable at the time of the shooting.<BR/><BR/>I guess my moral qualms are getting in the way just because the end result was a dead body. <BR/><BR/>@anonymous cont’d.: While I completely agree with you that it is important to encourage something over the helpless acceptance of injury and intimidation, I just think that this might have gone over that reasonable limit that you speak of. He was drunk, he was inside and came outside to do it, he shot while yelling stop if the witness is to be believed, he shot not just one of the kids but two of them. I don’t know… as I said. I’m torn. Mostly because of those moral qualms about killing someone.Hairy Swedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18041694218084956969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-16909137559233497382008-05-09T10:13:00.000-05:002008-05-09T10:13:00.000-05:00...cont'd..I would argue that it makes far more se......cont'd..<BR/><BR/>I would argue that it makes far more sense (from a health-of-society perspective) to forgive the father's overreaction committed in the heat of the moment (fear, anger) than to encourage helpless acceptance of injury and intimidation by prosecuting him. <BR/><BR/>Within reasonable limits, of course, and that's what juries of peers are for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837418360328434663.post-44115273191721274092008-05-09T09:57:00.000-05:002008-05-09T09:57:00.000-05:00"But is self defense possible without killing some..."But is self defense possible without killing someone? I think so."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely, but it isn't as reliable.<BR/><BR/>I don't know the truth of the story, but I do know that 6 15 year olds with clubs can do a whole lot of damage, including murder. Furthermore, the situation is volatile and the only way for one 50 year old to gain control over the situation is to start asserting it, with a weapon that puts him on equal or greater footing than the attackers.<BR/><BR/>The age difference is irrelevant. The 15 yo kids might be dumb and young, but they are physically and destructively peers with the victim and his son (presumably also 15).<BR/><BR/>The fact that it happened on his lawn and not inside the house is definitely relevant -- unless they were preventing his son or other family members free movement to a safer place. The laws in the US vary on such things, generally private property is private property, but you do have an obligation to attempt to defuse the situation, or reduce the risk to yourself and your family to non-mortal.<BR/><BR/>If that fails, and if the police/judge/jury agree that you exercised reasonable judgement in determining that the risk to you or your family was mortal or grievous, then we encourage you to shoot the bastards. Some of us hope you don't kill them, either because we have moral qualms or because we believe the prison system will do more good than death...but many of us don't have much tolerance for such nuance...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com